raymond frantz

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Posts by raymond frantz

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  19

  A City Having Real Foundations.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  someone asked me recently when did i start to have doubts as an elder about what i was teaching from the platform.. i have given it a lot of thought and i can say that it was when i was delivering a public talk about the book of hebrews.

  so i paused and read it again.. i looked at the audience and said to them let's look at the cross-reference for this verse which is hebrews 12:22 and i read that verse.

  after which i remember saying "and this is how the outline puts it.... " and i read from the outline verbatim.. abraham was not looking forward to an earthly kingdom hope.

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  raymond frantz

  If there are two hopes - heaven & earth - then some mental gymnastics are required to alter these verses:
  

  (John 10:16) "...they will become one flock, one shepherd." (A flock in heaven and earth? That's two flocks!)

  (Ephesians 4:4) . . .the one hope . . . (not two!)

  @ BoogerMan : The Watchtower is the only Christian denomination that teaches this nonsense of 144,000 going to heaven and a great crowd staying here on earth.

  All other denominations including the Bible and the first Christians believe that these two groups are the Jewish and the Gentile Christians, still all Christians, still one hope.

  In anyone's reasoning, a ransom never exchanges/replaces with something better or greater, and since Adam forfeited perfect life on earth for every single one of his prospective descendants, surely that is what the ransom should return????????

  (1 Corinthians 15:22) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.

  This is not Biblical, the chapter you are quoting in 1 Corinthians speaks for our new bodies raised into immortality in heaven in the same way Jesus did.

  So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
  

  It is quite clear from these verses that the RANSOM sacrifice has nothing to do with what body you are getting in the New system, in fact the opposite is true.

  The first Adam became a living earthly person and so are we, but the last Adam=Jesus became a life giving spirit and so we will too.
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  19

  A City Having Real Foundations.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  someone asked me recently when did i start to have doubts as an elder about what i was teaching from the platform.. i have given it a lot of thought and i can say that it was when i was delivering a public talk about the book of hebrews.

  so i paused and read it again.. i looked at the audience and said to them let's look at the cross-reference for this verse which is hebrews 12:22 and i read that verse.

  after which i remember saying "and this is how the outline puts it.... " and i read from the outline verbatim.. abraham was not looking forward to an earthly kingdom hope.

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  raymond frantz

  An example is the film The Book Of Eli. The bad guy wants to get a Bible in post apocalyptic times because it can be played like a musical instrument to control people. History proves this to be true.
  

  ExBethelitenowPIMA
  

  Just because Jehovah's Witnesses misinterpret the Bible by cherry picking verses doesn't mean the Bible is not correct. You still haven't provided me an example from the Bible
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  2

  Do you know him?

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi all.. i have recently started following larchwood on x (formerly twitter).

  he (i'm assuming it is a 'he') posts some brilliant stuff and great links.

  i don't think he's on this site.. well worth checking it out in my opinion..

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  raymond frantz

  Yes he is great, I follow him too
• 
  19

  A City Having Real Foundations.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  someone asked me recently when did i start to have doubts as an elder about what i was teaching from the platform.. i have given it a lot of thought and i can say that it was when i was delivering a public talk about the book of hebrews.

  so i paused and read it again.. i looked at the audience and said to them let's look at the cross-reference for this verse which is hebrews 12:22 and i read that verse.

  after which i remember saying "and this is how the outline puts it.... " and i read from the outline verbatim.. abraham was not looking forward to an earthly kingdom hope.

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  raymond frantz

  ExBethelitenowPIMA

  I don't believe that dear friend, please feel free to share an example
• 
  19

  A City Having Real Foundations.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  someone asked me recently when did i start to have doubts as an elder about what i was teaching from the platform.. i have given it a lot of thought and i can say that it was when i was delivering a public talk about the book of hebrews.

  so i paused and read it again.. i looked at the audience and said to them let's look at the cross-reference for this verse which is hebrews 12:22 and i read that verse.

  after which i remember saying "and this is how the outline puts it.... " and i read from the outline verbatim.. abraham was not looking forward to an earthly kingdom hope.

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  raymond frantz

  Great verse, but needs to align with the rest of the Bible. Jesus was quite clear when he said that the cut off for heavenly life is John the Baptist, any believer before him is destined to earhly life, any believer after him to heavenly life.

  You are correct to surmise that the city that Abraham was looking forward to was a real city and not some vague promise for paradisaic life on earth, the city's name is New Jerusalem and will descend down here on earth after the 1000 years where Abraham will have all the time in the world to inspect its foundations
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  33

  Further education

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just saw on a video that there has been a change about further education.

  here is a screenshot of a letter that went to all elders.

  i am an elder but i don’t remember this one, perhaps it is only for some areas?.

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  raymond frantz

  Is that the new trend now? Making false claims for clicks? This announcement uses strange jw terms.

  "following such a course is not OUTLAWED???"

  The Watchtower will never speak this way
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  12

  John 13:35 Mistranslated?

  by KerryKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  disclaimer!

  i am not a bible translator not do i speak ancient greek or hebrew.. john 13: 35 nwt : 'by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves '.. (curiously, this verse is not listed in the nwt index under the word 'disciples'.).

  the biblehub interlinear reads : ' by this will know all that to me disciples you are if love you have among yourselves '.. could it actually mean, contrary to all bible translations, that it is jesus himself, and not people in general, who identifies his disciples because they show love among each other?.

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  raymond frantz

  The Watchtower capitalised on centuries of Christian charity that has been the foundational framework of our Western Civilization to preach their own version of "have love among yourselves". Threatening members with disfewllowshiping to tow the line is not a genuine expression of Christian love. In the same way that North Korean citizens showing love for their leader is not genuine love. They confuse unity (=motivated by love) with uniformity
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  12

  John 13:35 Mistranslated?

  by KerryKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  disclaimer!

  i am not a bible translator not do i speak ancient greek or hebrew.. john 13: 35 nwt : 'by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves '.. (curiously, this verse is not listed in the nwt index under the word 'disciples'.).

  the biblehub interlinear reads : ' by this will know all that to me disciples you are if love you have among yourselves '.. could it actually mean, contrary to all bible translations, that it is jesus himself, and not people in general, who identifies his disciples because they show love among each other?.

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  raymond frantz

  This is the translation from the Kingdom Interlinear that the Watchtower promotes on their website

  
  

  The crucial word is "ean=if ever" I don't see why anyone will translate EAN as "if ever" , it doesn't work. The correct interpretation should be "if(=EAN) you love among yourselves."

  (=I'm Greek, with 3 years studies in Koini)

  What is the context through the lense of the first few centuries of the church? The type of love Christians portrayed was UNIQUE for the first few centuries and the reason many pagans converted to Christianity, some excerpts below

  
  
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  3124

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  raymond frantz

  I don't think he will hit 100 patreons anytime soon ,I think the rock bottom is 300-350 and it will be for some time but that's not alot of money. Will he run off to USA? Will he come back to the UK? Who knows? But one thing is certain that at this level things must be getting desperate that's why we don't see as many videos anymore he must be planning his next move away from YouTube. One thing is certain it won't involve manual labour😂🤶😂
• 
  3124

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  raymond frantz

  His lordship was grooming a girl in Bramhall and the father who is an elder, guess what's his name is got wiff of it. That, with Djiana's revelations to the elders made them put two and two together and of course the elders in Bramhall freaked out!!!

  The Wilmslow jc was a sham, and was only convined to give him a quick pass to Croatia.Wilmslow elders are famous for their sweeping things under the carpet.

  The girl from Bramhall is happily married and moved out of the area and no one wants her to revisit her memories with the fat blob, but I know her family and a quick phonecall if the occasions arises will be enough to get the fat slob sweating.

  As I said it is only a matter of time ...and the time is on our side.

  Of course he can do the easy thing and completely dissappear and close his patreon account and get a 9-5 job but we all know he won't do any of that...and that's why we are still here